LMTF Podcast Episode 2: The Sharing Economy

The implications of the new wave of peer-to-peer enabling social technologies for society.

Recorded 19 March 2017.

If you think that Airbnb’s net worth is higher than the Marriott chain of hotels, we should take a moment to think of the implications. What we think has been established has been disrupted by companies run by few people. . .This is happening and this is going to be even more powerful in the future, when the platforms for programming are becoming even more easy to use.

Episode Machine Transcript (uncorrected and unedited)

Welcome to make the future a discussion of their future trends technologies and their implications for the world we’re coming to you from all over the world I’m Michael Curry an independent software developer an entrepreneur from Canada currently living in Thailand. I’m Daniel a mathematician and so if we can pick tickets just from Munich Germany Hi I’m kind of Barack Hussein am originally from Iran in printing even Barry act an entrepreneur and I’m also interested on AI and super intelligence neuroscience.

I’m. I’m from and I work in computing shots angst and as a side obviously I have huge it’s shared economy you know how to simulate humans on the how to put people in touch with each other.

And today’s topic the social implications of the sharing economy the sharing economy is an economic system in which assets or services are shared between private individuals either free or for a fee typically by means of the Internet like Wilber Air B.N. B. Task Rabbit Lending Club should economy as a concept is strapped to the losses in many situations if you think that A B. and B. Net worth is higher than the Marriott chains on the issue of the come on what is usually. What we think the sixth Ave has been struck to buy companies time by few people so now two guys can disrupt work.

And he’s going to be even more powerful in the future well in the past.

Becoming even.

More access to their mother who are scientists and in my hometown in Naples to be a writer you have to have a one hundred thousand word license typically people from the parents so now he’s changing everything so what is happening is that everybody can even write every day from is there now and they set about in the streets and sometimes you know violent but they don’t want to.

We can either be too old for being to this or if you want to use in you that you have to talk to whoever was so that’s why I just recently came open to pay for did decrease in the price of their license to compensate them and to have them transition to the new. So well when you got so well and you’re the country that comes up you think that you should be totally this container for what the past was or we should be open to.

People who were into that kind of setting and the kind of job and their lives and we know pain for them and their families so I guess this effect you’re you’re talking about is something that really that’s not only in Europe but in your hometown and I think in most parts of Europe was a pretty large. Scream out by the Catron first and also in Argentina very often become violent you know taxi drivers would call and burst to the test car up and up and it’s better if you could as a number drive it which was the service you were calling for to get you out there and they will pay for the expenses caused by this the question is I mean. I kind of know what Michael.

Will say about this remark and regulates itself and what it will cost kept traverse to you know like that in some way but it depends on how far we look at the future. Because for now I think about all people would have a smartphone be if would only have they would want to have a word or two with the airport without knowing that there’s people to pick on you by and they can reach them on all patients out of body and soul of this case I think by taxi driving some very regulated business products and the German government was read beyond sentiment were coming in Germany as well. The real justification for lodging rules and livery rules to protect the people that are using these services it’s possible you could be an unsafe taxi and a taxi that drives you somewhere and kills you or maybe something far less bad like just steals your money or rips you off or is smelly or whatever right unsafe drive but now we have the Internet that provides more information about the taxi you’re about to enter than you were able to get before so before you needed the long arm of the government to stir vent them from ripping off customers but now it is available Well I mean internet oh reputed all a given taxi driver is so we can avoid that without the government ever having to step in between the relationship between the passenger and the taxi driver so I feel like a lot of these regulations are no longer relevant new technology and new information that’s available to people so I want to talk about two things one a.

Revolution and it might though they’re born as a sharing economy well better than initially sorry that I was in a.

Heavy explained that older initially wanted to follow regulations started lemmas same car and next on a specific car that you can order those like that you came. From any place and then lift came down and they had to come. Using any cars that doesn’t matter whose car is that actually the funniest fired that over keep not to sing the Government and State Department to sue against left Travis a done like many many times cliff because wrecking Laos and then they see that nobody do anything about it so they said OK we’re going to be against market share and then they started to actually providing that adding this feature to anyone can drive over and that was the main reason why it’s become a skill in a very rapid rate that’s one part and then they’re on their own we talk about the concept of free market but I really think Arab nation goes true or is more decentralized like a structure in many ways however the whole platform is become really mono point who are competitors relatively less it’s not like what’s our small businesses that you provide lots of leg OK even like let’s all change but yes.

More monopoly in a global market and a structure of the system that can provide us.

With a question know like havoc in a structure such as these system to other markets or other part of the world because those people are do is play says do not have that capability off providing a structure or organization because they cannot go to lots of or into into many different markets and I guess that’s against kind of the idea of free market or at least the concept of free market it’s going to come to change in the next decade from was the have.

If I.

Can I quickly throw in I don’t know too much about the you know the sex like why we succeeded so much but I did and it I guess it depends on who you ask because they’re off for example that that was you know like it was so it was able to become so expensive because there’s also like a very limited amount of caps in San Francisco so that was really you know like a little supply and and also if you talk to like I for like talk from where they always say that they are like I have a supply and demand calculator are written in this like like their main success reason so I’m not sure if we can pinpoint it to one reason only. I don’t know that anybody more knows more about this I’d be interested in that and what was that you said last year but the one of the only situation I think.

Intrinsic you know like you can think of flak were infiltrating economists like marketplace that’s usually you know you marketplace for.

Connecting primaries and it’s people who want or want to like transported and I feel like this tends to become like them like as a consumer you don’t want to have to put a lot of market places you know like you don’t want to have like three apps for her for you to write you know you know what I mean you just have one ep and then you want to do connect there so it’s kind of like a free market going on or it might be depending on the marketplace in that marketplace but it’s not like been part of the marketplaces I don’t know how exactly that will turn out and also my question to just be who said in the beginning that’s.

If this oh this social impact it will have because it started but very few people the. Question is is the only time any paper people having it like that of the other company or is that it’s also nominated by more like how much power do people understand now like. The people who offer their services half in those places one after that kind of concern I do have it for example I’ve done recent independent contractor that considered drivers as independent contractor and because of that many after I’ve heard you don’t get health insurance they don’t get paid sick job they don’t get many a man efforts.

Krantz job to provide for them however Madge already off them really interest said about like flexible time scheduling that they can have.


I guess like for example being a pro at lots of concern like for example halt insurance like of all there is a drivers of what’s happened with them and I guess we need to kind of also come up with new app Roche and to solve this problem because we cannot really fight against.

A scaling of.

So I guess that would be.

Kind of like consarned I have there’s many different concerns but have they can actually make a structure technology in the sense that like so many off those implications because you cannot stop technology for growing for.

Yeah how’s it going Giuseppe is this is this going where you want to have yes yes this is a very interesting discussion I I just want to reiterate the concept of transition because Spamhaus. We can stop this this is happening and this is going to mean even you know Sasser So it’s going to be.

Disruptive in many ways OK so now we just have to think about how can we prevent this from. Destroying life because understand that heavy as you know as much as having.

A regulated market sort of. Even privilege only to a few people now and now we all we all know that these drunk OK but we can now tell them that we don’t they don’t have that religious and it’s complicated but they’ve built a lifestyle on it they they they shape their families OK But even even if it was on a wrong base and a brown concept.

We cannot take it back so on one side we can’t slow down who dressed progress so we can do is have like if you get a department in the column the transition I would say from a digital to digital nominated life is only a transition we have like that’s what we. Saw for example in Italy we are not the eatery is is as a mirror to be in the heart.

Now for for some time we had a ministry of equal opportunity just to level up and to give more you know more power as we meant to level up with men so I know when something similar. You know across ages and areas right now prominent and new era and we need to have a transition and this business especially speaks only the government can do it is not for profit so it is what I think we need to take care of those people want. So just happy I like your idea I feel like you’re addressing the humanitarian consequences of the sharing economy like you say to. Actually drivers they all they were doing was buying into a system that previously existed where you needed to get all this fancy insurance by a license signed up with a taxi company and now they find the that all that money for example went into in tax in New York City the price of a taxi medallion was pushing a million dollars a million US dollars to buy a license to drive a taxi and so you can imagine what you would feel like if you mortgage your house and you Borel from your family and you team up with two other guys to buy a taxi medallion and or buy one off of. The retiring taxi driver and then a year later the value of these medallions plunges by fifty percent because some upstart bunch of frat boys at her decide to just start a business and ignore all the regulations so I can completely understand the frustration when your complying with all the rules and some other company is ignoring that now we can all agree that the rules make no sense and shouldn’t be there but I can totally sympathize with the existing companies frustration when they say look we’re complying with the rules so we shouldn’t be the ones that are punished it should be a level playing field for everyone but I think where I differ is where as the incumbent companies in these in many countries want the same rules to apply to Air B.N. B. and other companies I would say let’s get rid of the rules in the first place if we don’t need them any more because the Internet provides us with enough information that we don’t need special rules protecting consumers from being scammed by unscrupulous bed and breakfasts for unscrupulous taxi drivers then let’s just scrap the rule rather than make the same bad rules apply to everyone beyond that I was going to say just Seppi that although you’re very good to say we need a Department. Transitional that will address the humanitarian consequences so the taxi drivers can have adjustment assistance I think it doesn’t address the whole litter called dimension of this which is that it’s not really the individual taxi drivers and hotel staff that are protesting these rules it’s the companies the taxi companies the hotels that are protesting when companies have the most power like they do in Spain for example or they can lobby the government to keep the sharing economy out but in countries where consumers have more power the government will not listen to the lobby groups and will permit the sharing companies. At all to say one last thing can we say which fault it is for it being this way no one likes who should they be angry at because right now they’re angry at a company disrupt the sharing economy company but actually what I think the really cool and the points that people feel betrayed because state they have assisted with make it attractive for them. By the by the government so maybe it’s just you know but it opens up the government providing those regulations make so attractive and all the governments it’s really against as well against those companies because to give them better you know like it or maybe they have to be part of a means that.

You know regulation school might be out there are going to be relieved but I don’t anymore but the patience you have between.

What you think about that.

So I’m having a hard time hearing you fortunately Danielle. So basic that yes so so can you summarize your point just just that well yeah you know. They have to follow you because you’re my best so.

It’s we’re. Yeah it was good earlier yeah it was good or earlier serious I.

Can somebody that’s right that’s interesting maybe maybe a bike should put it back on proceeds because that right now it kills everything else besides but hang up with but anyway so my my my coach most likely should pay to get rid because we are not the ones that maybe also restating the fact that the. Governments faults to make the system so attractive for the Buy it regulations for this markets that try to protect them so they should not be angry at the government and ball game and it’s not a question of who is fault whose fault is it is your question right is it the government’s fault or is it yeah I don’t know who who else’s fault yet because what most of what you are saying went in the direction that it’s the government’s fault and right now it’s trying to do with its mistakes kind of by by like trying to keep the outside for example.

Yeah I guess I would say if I can answer that just very briefly like any other people can weigh in too like in line mind it is the government’s fault for imposing these rules in the past and then not adapting as new technologies came on stream now this is very normal for the laws to lag the technology but nevertheless I think.

It’s even worse though because.

You know I actually really embarrassed about it over and left because for. All of you guys are going to believe me but for like ten years I’ve been saying taxi drivers are the whole taxi industry is ridiculous like in Calgary we had out three thousand licenses for taxis and that was a fixed number that had been set in like one thousand nine hundred one and had never changed never been moved up in thirty years and. Yet of course the population of Calgary during this time you know multiplied by two or more so of course every time city council comes around to debating Should we raise the number of taxi licenses the average person in Calgary doesn’t show up to protest instead the taxi lobby me the guys that have the most to lose from having more taxis on the road of course they show up and they say no no no no no more taxi licenses and. So no more taxi licenses got issued for thirty years and it’s very similar in other cities throughout the world and I was just pulling my hair out about this this this fact for three years saying my God this is ridiculous somebody needs to change these rules because we’re we’re paying way too much for taxis the taxi drivers don’t even benefit because they just have to buy these ridiculous medallions that cost huge amounts of money so nobody benefits from that system really.

And and I was saying this for years and I thought the solution was political I thought you had to go in and you know lobby the government and change the law but you know just showed up as I say a bunch of frat boys that just said you know what we’re going to.

We’re going to ask for forgiveness instead of permission and that’s what they did they just started running their business just like party and says Right and they found We’ll have a government doesn’t even doesn’t even enforce this rule very strictly So we’re just going to run our business and so I guess what I’m trying to say if I could have started it where but I didn’t that’s all I’m trying to say.

That to you and you know what any of us could have right yeah go ahead Is that not totally I mean no but those so and so would you saying and I want to also if you like I mean there are there were movies made about this basically so it was a really you know brute predictive process also. Well the government changed some something but they didn’t because like it kind of worked I guess I don’t know but. You said you were looking for a solution on on like governmental side and I guess you know like kind of the solution was in the sentence where you said instead of asking for permission they asked for forgiveness because they exactly you know like was where they like out how to say like plaits the government and where the Eventually the Government’s media to kick in or at least in other countries and the US it’s always I think that’s that’s.

You know like a feature but also like it has not been the downside also in the pharmacy industry for example I see this more critical in the U.S. that you.

Rather ask for forgiveness I think that the quality of our politicians.

Sometimes you don’t have a very successful career you just want to party right.

Or at least in Italy just people who are well connections there are people right and they don’t they didn’t they don’t want to work but example like you know.

And and this is what is happening while you are politicians solo is so embarrassing No you can’t you can’t imagine that it’s hard and I think that they don’t understand.

The potential impact of shared of me and most of our politicians You can even go to lie beyond the balance border you don’t know what’s happening around the world or night or special and they don’t get it OK this is horrible so you know to get this more on the way of development immediately to change the way we do politics and this comes.

Under nice guys a shot spun you know all this talk about this is true so we need to changed. Otherwise you would have problems.

OK as I have science Mike I guess we can do something we can session being are our ideas because I guess and idea might be could be a good idea of how they can implement sharing economy ridden different industry because I guess if we have more Drew critic losses them or structure many elect different ways to. Those more open and the centralized organization so there’s no connection between these two so I guess we need to find new centralized organization didn’t many different system so I’m kind of interested to hear your thoughts and I are a business idea.

Changing the current system in many different aspects one affair leg idea I am looking for it’s about education and group at their structure if you haven’t universities and universities. And have we can have independent research or have we can in the. Barnett a green or. Because I believe as we discuss change many off different social norms within the society and I believe the going to break down many different social norms within the society.

Basically party you’re asking let’s come up with some business ideas that will help to change the government’s mind about some of these sharing economy regulations I just want to take a step back to answer that question back to what Giuseppe was saying he was saying politicians in Italy they’re not necessarily the best people they’re ignorant some of them haven’t been out of the country they’re not the best people to be making the regulations about this fast moving industry I’d like to take a different view of this political science lot all sed politicians decision as basically a ten. Between interest groups if you have one interest group that lobbying you heavily like the taxi lobby or the hotel lobby and you have another group that is an organized that isn’t meeting you on a regular basis and giving you political donations and organizing rallies on your behalf like consumers or people that use hotels or people that use tax it’s because they’re not organized then you’re naturally going to agree with the group that’s organized so in my mind the solution to the political opposition to the sharing economy is to involve as many interested groups as possible in that sharing economy is to engage as many groups like these taxi drivers and hotel owners and get them interested in the profit implications of the sharing economy so if we had a business that let hotels more easily sell their routes or if we let a business that like let taxi drivers like used style service to sell their services some kind of business like like that that starts to pull in the people that are the losers of the sharing economy and make them into winners also I think we would get rid of the political opposition to the sharing economy.

That is a pretty good.


But yes maybe we need to implement what sites you tonight.

I’ve done research before on this and try to it’s like autonomous are going to act right now and Main Line enough such a structure is that by action economy action and structure that is not a finite currency for example as one of those decentralized for. It’s also like to they do like government the decision making process they’re.


Like for example. Education I guess all going to change.

And the main argument that for example about. Like or watching system I guess we also going to structure things those and because the current voting system it’s very very inefficient it requires lots of time and also it requires like lots of their visions and lots of people there are just like many people job is just too fast to process which is structure and very very like an F. efficient way and we can provide a platform that provides a faster and easier to connect like. For example their friend parties are different people.


Very fast speed so you don’t require for example if I want to study back it’s a course in like one like university like right now I have to go to my school I have to find a course says I have to talk with my like advice or and I C B trying to match with my degree we try to is not mesh with my degree it and then find a course that finally like what I want like to take and probably is not exactly what I require to take because I have to take this course because it was a structure in dismay because that’s the society you provide the metrics of success are getting degree in many ways and that does many of those metrics wish doesn’t make any sense in many ways and what I believe that we’re going to raise new. Social firms that OK I can take any horse we can see right now in any a structure and I can do what like of course I like I can find any.

Professor I would like and I saw the need to pay actually that much money and I don’t need to have my advice or like so many to friend the people who just help me to pick one courses which I’m not like at the end interest so I can just say go on line and find me for like one hundred which is really fast so what I’m trying to say that we going to.

Make a structure that is really really fast and we don’t like deal with those who critique like a structure and in terms of government that just happen to like describe it I believe that we’re going to have a new war two mechanism that is very instant.

And we can change that people are being people that are going to like control or a leader in a specific like domain.

At a same time instantly and also the other things I believe we’re not going to have like high R.E.Q. level of OK I have to Senate I have this state policy I have people are all watching to find like one super leader to kind of cover us in many aspects well who want one thing we do though instead of having doors a specific leader we have I call it like platform leaders platform that a structure like the centralized like mechanism or system. Or marketplace as in many other boards or firm it.

Platforms are things that leading us so I don’t think we’re going to have like very centric. Why are acutely there so I guess we’re going to have many different platforms or a structure in our society that those are more decentralized that they have poverty to govern or control or.

Other since maybe we do have more car like kind of have.

More free or in the view always and in many senses.

I think what you’re talking about is like a like party at least like a very Because if you know like the Internet you have a very efficient market so you get information like very very quickly and what you’re talking about kind of it’s like a very like hyper democratic process you know like.

Like instead of like voting for representatives you basically like crowd vote for like how to use and I’d like like crowd so your your opinions and decisions but the question is I don’t know like I think that’s also likes like you know highly critical if you look at recent examples off of were exactly how to probably it’s to vote if you look at Trump if you look at Bracks it you know and also and also in Europe in general like with the refugee crisis.

But just not informed that well too you know like media media for example has has a lot of control you know like good storytellers have too much control too to influence the masses and so eventually will end up in that with a democracy who will be dominated by people who tell good stories like Trump like you know like like you like those people and like who connects who to the masses who. Are using up or abusing like certain problems so that might be I don’t know an issue that that was my main argument or like I guess according to structure we have yes I laugh with a Burger King like hey. Had bandages off but we’re going I don’t know how much For example you know about smart contracts or third or other structure and I don’t think we’re going to have one centric like leader kind of govern us in many aspects and affect our life like for example I’m really like assessor freakout in many ways because I’m from around Travis like.

Become president and my life my reason I like lots of circumstances that I honestly cannot control like at oh I cannot leave in the way I want because I cannot control it like it’s not out of my hand I cannot do anything I don’t have what I have now nothing whatsoever to change my circumstances because lots of them there are like dozen ruled by me and because the likes of Nike are but that’s you know like I could look at you know like a country which I don’t like and say well I have why don’t I have influence over the country I mean that’s kind of you know like our system that you need to be a citizen M.P.’s chose to like make it hard for people to get a visa and everything and and you know like like there I don’t know if there needs to be some bones but it least be right now as there are there are and that’s what but just as a quick cycling Do you know this guy from seeing the right university from one side a school like he’s actually like doing something like that for legal decisions you know like for instead of having a jury like crowd source this you know I’m. I do but one of the things I wanted to say they are going to have more.

Social firms or a structure that are going to be the fact our opinion. You know like a smaller group and kind of a collective Lee at the going to result collective intelligence. Sort of like a crack for saying in general but I guess write articles growing more decentralized next for X. are many many different networks are smaller they’re all connected with each other but they have their own interests I’m not necessarily going to be ruled by Trump or make for example infected by if I want to live it many of their friend neck parties so I really like the concept of for example a smart contracts and I guess we’re going clavicle social groups are like a small groups they probably have that they’re like we can a structure the mechanism or organisation that our policy makers that is Jeff that’s our opinion so we don’t need to have a very high arche like. They could leaders that. Are what we want to do and I guess our social ferment is going a lot well and that like for example we don’t have like some politicians are not really represent our interest or who don’t have poverty to lobby or I guess the whole policy cost system in general is going to be changed in many many ways in future because the whole process you’re going to schools to do politics for a long time and then you don’t ever have many defend the. What’s happening and if you want to you need to have that degree about like a specific thing and then finding those people who are that there was interest is like we need really small and doesn’t really represent our ideas and those people don’t have money and that they’re like a club or to lobby and that doesn’t show the interest of the people that could not like really represent their values or their interests.

Yeah I’d like to if I can just take a step back for a second I think maybe the way to connect a party with DI D. is about Director Mark Racine and the hierarchy of various direct democracies.

It is too to say basically just happy throughout the question or through through to us the question how can we make the sharing economy possible in places where there seems to be political opposition to it how can we make it possible and party and solution is to introduce a more direct democracy approach using technology that could potentially lead to a political outcome that we want here so that’s interesting I approach and we could talk for a whole other episode on political systems and how best to make political decisions for sure so I think this good for us might be bad for monoculars in the shared economy for example that will get either thirty underpaid and I think this is hard because you have to do it.

Because you have lived this you’ve got to implement on this site so I think that now most of the price.

So citizens workers could become but some how I like to think about this sharing economy used it shifts fixed costs to variable costs and it makes markets much more efficient so they will both have very interesting effects on like companies will outsource more and more it will have class his fixed costs will have less margins efficiency of the market is generally a good thing I don’t know what happens if it becomes too efficient because them as I said earlier with the voting systems there’s also problems but think that generally I got a good thing and really curious to see how it will turn out.

In this elevator pitch battle each of us will give one business idea in less than thirty second.

We will each vote on the best idea.

Around one Michael.

OK here’s my idea of software that rapidly moves.

With deep learning in real time during conversations over Google Hangouts it can also eliminate a car and other text so you don’t need to use your microphone it would make you sound smarter thinking about the target and that makes it kind of funny like what you say to people wanting to sound smart.

People who are annoyed by the other party.


That combined I commend to be out of you which.

You’ll find.

Each of us to solve our personal problems this is good.

But I guess that’s how you come up with solutions right because you try to think of problems you are things you don’t like so it was funny that the solution is take and then it ends with And then the owner comes down.

To machine space of.


If you grab them right now.

And you buy like.

The idea is to buying a new license that you can lead me in any other place it’s similar. Range Prudy So pretty much I can buy a license believe in many different country or many different places.

Like a timeshare this is like buying property for exchange so you just say have learned I said one hundred thousand dollars but I can leave our price range I gave like new type license or honor share like in leaving many craft in bad range any time around the world like a. Repartee It’s like a real combination of sharing and owning economy you know because you pay for a license you own a license and how you would have owned an apartment but you just like to share your property with us is that.

Brown for standing ideas about low cost home repairs so if you have a problem and homeless you submit a problem you will be sans a true kid in simply in like an hour including a process equipped with a camera and from there we can remotes like Lord of the company and remote control you and me using a OUR you will have extra information about the stuff you are repairing at that moment and such an expert will see what you see and let you know what to do though we should extend it to medical Yeah nice all medical repair that is very good particularly for emergencies.

All right so it’s hoarding time people have to decide on the best idea is the I want our mover or is it just setting and the augmented reality apartment review or is it part in the idea of being in B. for time shifts or is it Daniel’s idea of augment that reality discount home repair harming it Mike. Yes and. I vote for.

My state is perfect but I’ve had school look at the Good Guys I want a lot of that we know we hear a loser so to me this is great.

Everyone is was really fine I had a great five yeah it was great Have a good day have a good night everyone and I got a.


sharing economy (17) taxi driver (11) free market (4) political opposition (3) taxi licenses (3) shared economy (17) business idea (3) taxi company (2) humanitarian consequences (2) smart contracts (2) interest group (3) social firms (2) taxi medallion (2) taxi lobby (2) frat boys (2) direct democracy (2) social norms (2) independent contractor (2) good thing (2) centralized organization (2) B.N. (2) people (41) company (16) structure (21) government (25)

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